Archeologi dell'Aria Forum

HISTORICAL RESEARCH AND RECOVERY HUMANITARIAN - WELCOME ON BOARD - => ENGLISH SECTION => Topic aperto da: raus - 19 Nov 2017, 21:19:40

Titolo: Italian plane near Rijeka, Croatia
Inserito da: raus - 19 Nov 2017, 21:19:40
oi!

After long time we found new Italian plane, and we need help. Eyewitnesses story are very different, and we don't have any document about that plane. The man who show us crash site, remember that plane came from direction of Pula, and day was 8.9.1943. He also think that he saw fire in cockpit, and saw two pilot jump from plane ????
We found just few pieces and they are mixed with other militaria part because on that hill near Rijeka was big battle between Partisans and German forces in last days of war.
I tried also look on www.cmpr.it  and found maybe just one possible match, but I'm really not sure.
Can anyone help?
thanks
Radovan

(https://s20.postimg.org/a9abt1onx/DSCN3196.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/qx1tvjr59/DSCN3198.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/4xvf8cxgd/DSCN3204.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/dg4vcpbot/DSCN3207.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/jh2k9t0vx/DSCN3209.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/rmkm7ywul/DSCN3210.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/605lqylfh/DSCN3212.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/9705any6l/DSCN3226.jpg)
[imghttps://s20.postimg.org/f7xu7qsil/DSCN3228.jpg]http://[/img]
(https://s20.postimg.org/iesdrdkod/DSCN3229.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/fxgmk5y7x/DSCN3239.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/6cwzxa165/DSCN3241.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/nq7ac4h1p/DSCN3242.jpg)

Is that "CA" stamp sign for Caproni maybe ?

(https://s20.postimg.org/hp9lexk3x/DSCN3214.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/5amteqxsd/Nomenclatore_CA._311_mozda.jpg)

Titolo: Re:Italian plane near Rijeka, Croatia
Inserito da: Fabio - 19 Nov 2017, 23:42:04
Great work Raus!

"Scaini Milano" is a battery element...
Titolo: Re:Italian plane near Rijeka, Croatia
Inserito da: Freddy - 20 Nov 2017, 09:40:23
It could be really difficult to identify that plane having only that few pieces but I'm convinced that you may be right considering a Ca 311 or another type of the same series.
Obviously, if it was one of the quite numerous a/c that left Yugoslavia or northern Italy after the armistice, when many crews tried to escape to reach italian bases in territories under allied control, then the problem could be really difficult to resolve.
A certain number of those a/c simply disappeared because crashed somewhere at sea or on the mountains, shot down by german or also allied fighters, by AA fire or even because of technical problems. Many crews took off without checking the plane or with insufficent fuel hoping to have luck.
About those planes, little or even nothing is known because nobody registered their loss in those times due to the chaos caused by the armistice.

A little help could come from knowing what units were based in the Pula area at that time. Most likely you have already checked, but I will try to include the list anyway.

At September 8, 1943.

The 119 Squadriglia - LXXII Gruppo O.A. (Osservazione aerea) - 19 Stormo - was at Alture di Pola with Caproni Ca 311, Ca 314 and Fiat Br 20.

The 113 Squadriglia - LXIII Gruppo O.A. (Osservazione aerea) - 22 Stormo - was at Alture di Pola with Caproni Ca 314, Ca 164 and Fiat Br 20.

Titolo: Re:Italian plane near Rijeka, Croatia
Inserito da: pipistrello - 20 Nov 2017, 09:58:40
Not CA 18, but GA 18, for Genio Aeronautico n. 18.
It isn't useful for identification.
GA 18 means: Ditte accessori motori (engines parts).
Titolo: Re:Italian plane near Rijeka, Croatia
Inserito da: Taras Bulba - 22 Nov 2017, 16:00:18
On July 31, 1943 a Ca.314 belonging to the 119th Squadriglia O.A. (reconnaissance) based in Pola was shot down between Josipdol and Ostarije. Could it be? It should be the last known plane lost, and hardly an Italian plane on September 8, 43 would have gone to east.
Titolo: Re:Italian plane near Rijeka, Croatia
Inserito da: Taras Bulba - 25 Nov 2017, 17:16:02
I have consulted some books: the strategic points of Pola were occupied by sailors of the Kriegsmarine during the day of September 11, 1943 and at 9 o'clock in the evening the troops of the 71st German division began to arrive from Trieste, during that same day small partisan groups started to fire shots along the perimeter of city defenses. Fiume was occupied by the Germans only on 14 September and from September 8 it became the destination of various Italian units, that under attack by chetniks and partisans, were withdrawing.
Titolo: Re:Italian plane near Rijeka, Croatia
Inserito da: raus - 07 Gen 2018, 14:54:40
oi!

Felice anno nuovo !!!

Like I said in first e-mail, on crash site we found some parts that are not from plane:
(https://s20.postimg.org/r7kimrvot/DSCN3198_minobacac.jpg)

Also, last month we went two more times on crash site, and found few more parts. Maybe someone can recognize something now..
(https://s20.postimg.org/hzsa63425/DSCN3281.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/6opmh726l/DSCN3316.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/k4cn76l4d/DSCN3287.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/vuqko1iwd/DSCN3320.jpg)

BREV(et)TO A

(https://s20.postimg.org/7e8etkxl9/DSCN3325.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/iql0bddzx/DSCN3328.jpg)

This is from book from V.Mikic about Italian air force in Yugoslavia during WW2.
(https://s20.postimg.org/yc2bv95ct/DSCN3277.jpg)

Also, this plane is not for sure Ca.314 that crashed near Ogulin, because that plane we already found.
 I found next citation on internet, and it could only be from this Ca.314:
" Di Cesare Giambattista, n. 1916 a Teramo, S. Ten. osservatore; caduto nel cielo di Ogulin in Croazia il 31-7-1943; laurea h.c. in Economia e commercio dall'Ateneo di Trieste"

ciao!
Radovan
Titolo: Re:Italian plane near Rijeka, Croatia
Inserito da: Fabio - 08 Gen 2018, 17:33:55
Grazie Radoan!