Autore Topic: Seat from Italian fighter  (Letto 10444 volte)

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Offline Freddy

  • Post: 1059
Re:Seat from Italian fighter
« Risposta #15 il: 06 Feb 2016, 11:37:00 »

Sorry, tail part is in wrong direction, it should be like it is in "posizione 2".
I found one number 15 - 7500 20, normal number system for B-17.

Freddy, You have map with crashes in area. I'm sure that this tail belong to 42-31749. In same area where we found part of tail, in time of WW2 Partisans and than after war, wood workers have found a lot of part of tail  and one body.....

About Klobucar: He research crashed planes in area of Gorski Kotar. Probably he gave You list with all planes that crashed in G.Kotar and in area near G.Kotar....

Hi Rado, thank you very much for your precious information. Unfortunately, I have no particular map regarding crash places in Croatia and Slovenia, instead I have a Yucrashes excel file version that I corrected and updated with regard to some particular cases. I try to keep it updated whenever I happen to find new information about the Slovenian and Croatian crashes. This, because my research area adjoins yours and I'd like to have a general overview, as complete as possible, of the situation.

You're right about Josip Klobucar. He gave me a lot of information about his researches in past. He contacted me a few years ago because he was looking for news on a B-17 that he believed been shot down in Croatia but, instead, had crashed in the Udine area. Unfortunately the MACR was not available on Fold3and so I sent him a scanned copy of the document that I had in paper format.

With respect to that part of tail, my doubts were due to the different angle of the initial edge of the deice boot. Anyway I looked at a lot of pictures of B-17 tails and noticed that the angle is not the same on all B-17's, with no apparent relation to the type of model or manufacturer.
I couldn't even find references to the existence of two or more different types of deicer.
At this point we can be sure it's really a piece of B-17 and that is, almost certainly, that one I've shown in position B.

The attached photo, shows the tail of a B-17 F (The famous B-17F-5-BO - S/N 41-24406 - "All American III" of the 97th Bg, 414th Bs, rammed by a Bf-109 in Tunisia.) and the deice boot looks exactly like yours.

Offline Freddy

  • Post: 1059
Re:Seat from Italian fighter
« Risposta #16 il: 06 Feb 2016, 19:03:42 »
There is another thing that doesn't seem to be correct. I took a look at your map in which also appears the crash point of Remo Lugari's Macchi 205. As is clear from the documents of the A.N.R., Lt.. Remo Lugari died in the crash of his fighter, in Velika Bukovica SW of Ilirska Bistrica, where his body had been recovered.
Anyway there is another Macchi 205 shot down on the same day and of which we don't know the crash point, it's the plane of Mar.llo Vittorio Pirchio who bailed out safely and had been retrieved by German forces and repatriated.
I believe that the crash point you have found is that of Pirchio's aircraft.

This is what I have about italian fighters shot down on 06/04/1944.

06/04/1944 - Mc.205 - s/n unknown - II Squadriglia - 1° Gruppo C.T. - S.Ten. Remo Lugari - KIA - Velika Bukovica SW of Ilirska Bistrica - SLO - Interception in Karlovac area. Return fire from B-24s or s/d by P-47s of the escort. Pilot KIA. A/c crashed at Velika Bukovica about 3 Km south-west of  Ilirska Bistrica

06/04/1944 - Mc.205 - s/n unknown - I Squadriglia - 1° Gruppo C.T.  - M.llo Luigi Morosi - KIA - Viškovo W of  Rijeka-Fiume - HR Interception in Karlovac area. Return fire from B-24s or s/d  by P-47s of the escort. Crash landed near Viškovo. Pilot badly wouded and killed by a partisan, with a "coup de grace", to shorten his sufferings. Buried at Kozala.

06/04/1944 - Mc.205 - s/n unknown - I Squadriglia - 1° Gruppo C.T. - M.llo Vittorio Pirchio - RTD - Crash point unknown. - Interception in Karlovac area. Return fire from B-24s or s.d. by P-47 of the escort. Pilot bailed out safely and returned with the help of German soldiers.

Offline raus

  • Post: 18
Re:Seat from Italian fighter
« Risposta #17 il: 07 Feb 2016, 13:34:23 »

1. Yes Freddy, You have right about Lugari. Because  we have just seat, and we have not yet found crash site, we thought that is maybe Lugari. In meantime we get info ( from You or Roberto Bassi?) that Lugari crash near Ilirska Bistrica. We found where is crash site, but not research yet. We heard story that pilot in that crash (position from Map-Lugari) died, then is not Pirichio... also I spoke to man from Karlovac who remember big air battle in Spring 1944, where one Italian pilot crashed with german(?) plane, was wounded and put in Karlovac hospital. I have somewhere record from some italian researcher that Pirichio was wounded after crash and send to Hospital in Karlovac  ..To many questions ?????....

2. Here is photo with good position of tail. I put some point to compare where that part was.... Also, on other photo is part of
 Bf-109G-6 from JG-53 ( with still visible "Pik-As" sign) from same battle. Two planes look again "eye to eye" after almost 72 years.  :biggrin:

I will send You new list with crashed planes in Istra-Rijeka area. Last plane that we found in Istra is Spitfire Mk.IX, 6.4.45; Lt.Hogan;
 2 Sqn SAAF; north of Pula; POW



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